How Do I Repair Cracking In A Lead White Oil Ground Primed Canvas
- This topic has 82 replies, 24 voices, and was concluding updated 7 years, 12 months agone by
.
Viewing fifteen posts - 46 through 60 (of 83 total)
-
Posts
-
I don't know whether he prepared his own canvases or paid someone else to make them for him (both were common at that time).
In Holland, the product of panels and canvases was reserved for guilds – 2 separate ones I think. Both Vermeer and Rembrandt used standard sized panels and canvases. Rembrandt, the Artist at Work goes into excruciating particular about Rembrandt's supports. There'due south a famous carving of an artist'southward studio (reproduced in that same book). It shows apprentists grinding paint and laying out the master's palette. There are equal sized panels or canvases on a high shelf, and a workman bringing more in through the front door. I found out near Vermeer's panels when I was researching The Girl with the Pearl Earring. Information technology's approximately xix″ Ten 16″, which was a standard size. Apparently nineteen:16 was as well a standard ratio for different sized supports.
^^^^^^^
Jive Dadson
^^^^^^^Possibly I can shed some light based on personal experience.
I too read Rob'due south position that the atomic number 82 prime needs six months to cure. Being a Doubting Thomas by nature, and knowing that technically the prime is simple thinned pb paint, I was sure information technology could exist painted on as soon as information technology was dry. And it is true that it tin can!
But. . .
What I noticed was that for up to two weeks the oil prime stayed very tacky and could exist moved around slightly with finger pressue.
After a month or ii, the canvas as notwithstanding tacky enough to leave fingerprint impressions on its smooth glossy surface.
From the four to six month period, the surface stiffens up to a nice gloss sheen — virtually a varnished surface, for want of a meliorate description.
Having watched several Schmid videos, he stresses using oil primed canvases and give sit-in how a properly primed (and I would advise "cured") sail tin can have paint applied and wiped off without staining the canvas. This works into some of his techniques and also his side demonstrations on a sheet he is undertaking.
The best pb prime seems to be atomic number 82 pigment (or paint) thinned in Black Oil and Turps to the consistency of cream (every bit Rob suggests). There are a number of means to utilise, but I brush it on generously into the sized or acrylic primed canvass, then wipe it smooth.
It may not exist the surface for everyone'south manner or gustatory modality, but it does definitely changes over time and becomes a wonderful surface to work on.
I can't only suspect the Masters would fail to notice the tackiness of recently primed canvass and wait until an appropriatie time to use them. (Before, they would probably have painted oils on superlative of a egg tempera covered panel and avoided the wait)
As well, I see no reason the sail couldn't have been sized and primed to big lengths and cut downward to the desired dimensions, just as we buy it now on rolls and use it accordingly.
thank y'all for your post. yous seem very knowledgable about grounds.
i thought i would ask you or anyone who may know, a couple of questions.
for years i accept painted "hard edge" abstractions in oil on acrylic grounds. i have struggled for years with a couple different problems. peradventure yous can assistance me problem-solve these.
i paint on canvas stretched over wood panel.
1. i use layerer later layer of lquitex gesso. i sand the layers using 120 or 150 grit. sanding is very difficult because the paper becomes clogged very chop-chop with acrylic primer. also, little balls of primer form and dig into the surface creating huge scratches that accept a lot of additional effort to ready. what am i doing incorrect? tin can i use something similar gamblin's oil footing on pinnacle of the smooth acyrilic ground as the concluding layer so that I tin can more easily create a perfectly shine surface?
my work is so simple, there are so few elements in it that every unmarried matter shows. and so if there are scratches from the sanding information technology is very distracting and it ruins the work.
2. i usually leave parts of the acrylic basis uncovered in the final work. some parts of the surface are covered with difficult edge lines of blackness painted with tripple naught circular brushes. some parts of the surface are left bare, matte white acrylic ground. sometimes the oil painting lines bleed oil "halos" into the acrylic matte white surface area making the matte white shiny. so it is very noticeable and it amercement the concluding product. perfection is needed in what i practice. and it sucks to put the corporeality of effort i put into my work and non achieve accented perfection.
3. when i make a fault in the painting of my hard edge thin lines and i have to remove oil pigment form the acrylic ground, a mark is left. or if i sand off the pigment, then the newly sanded area looks brighter than the other areas of the acrylic ground. any suggestions or insight here?
I would profoundly capeesh information that might possibly solve these thanks
You ain't jiving, jive.
Atomic number 82 white is produced on a coil of lead canvas resting on a "stop" in a container that has vinegar or urine (old fashioned manner) in the bottom. The container must be surrounded by controled estrus, and the old fashioned fashion for that was burial it in horse manure. In 60 or so days the acetic acrid of the vinegar/urine reacts with the lead so that white "flowering" encrusts the surface. The sheet is removed, uncoiled, and the flowering is scraped off with a spoon. The scraping comes off in dust or "flakes." THAT IS THE ONLY SENSIBLE MEANING "Fleck WHITE" HAS. The flakes are ever basis down to painting size with a muller or commercial rollers.
Commercial scrap white in a tube is a mixture of zinc oxide with a much lesser portion of pb. And it is worthless. It has no roofing power and takes an eternity to dry. Assigning the word "flake" to information technology has no redeeming value any.
As for the direct Gamblin quote of "a lead and linseed oil ground will take six months to dry" …. that is so blatently preposterous it is staggering. Atomic number 82 is the well-nigh siccative (quickest to dry) of all painting pigments. (If it is laid on no thicker than some of the earth pigments usually are.)
delete message
Ok and so Stag, what does the 1 and the 4 stand for? My conclusion that lxx% lead adulterated with 30% zinc is also logical. And experiential. I found "fleck white" to be utterly worthless because zinc is an utterly worthless painting pigment. And nothing will convince me of bottom zinc and greater lead in the tube. And it doesn't brand economic sense. Pb flake is produced past a time consuming and delicate process. Modern lab or manure pile. Why would anyone whatever one add together zinc to this precious commodity to get in worthless? Zinc is inexpensive and non-toxic and one role lead to 100 – or g – parts zinc will fill a large fatty tube of 120 ml of Winsor Newton Flake White that sells for a small-scale fraction of what 37 ml of WN Naples Yellow costs. Go to your store and check it out.
Ok Robert. I forgot to bespeak out that the original question of a pb and oil ground doesn't make a lot of sense either. Of course the lead will be in the medium of oil, as opposed to mustard or ketchup.
Only the color is white, and why would anyone desire to put a white ground on a white ground? You either use Fredrix pre-primed white ground, or mix up a real honest to goodness gesso ground. In both cases the ground is while. A white lead ground on top of that makes no sense. But white atomic number 82 mixed with other pigments makes a "tonal footing." The slop over edges of every painting Vermeer did has been chemically analysed to identify the pigments in his tonal grounds. And every painting had a tonal basis. Umber seems to be in all with some adding black, yellow ocher, and ocassionally just not always pb. The analysis could not state proportions of any pigment. Lead was ground with the other pigments in linseed oil. No one, except perhaps Van Eyck, exceeds Vermeer in adroitness. Am I to believe Vermeer had to wait 6 months for the lead (in oil) in his tonal grounds to "cure" earlier he began painting? Non in a one thousand thousand years will I believe that.I think the reply to the "curing" problem of pb white is this:
You Tin paint on lead white grounds immediately afterwards it'due south dry. But nearly painters who accept tried will find that an old canvas, primed long ago, works even better. The reason is that freshly dry out layers of oil hurting, and particularly pb white apparently, has a tendency to suck out oil of in a higher place layers while the ground layer is yet drying on the inside. This can pb to "sinking in" of colour, and sometimes even cracking (but it'southward commonly not that bad). However, I think this problem is worst with thick layers of priming, and not such a big deal if the pb primer is practical thinly.
As for the direct Gamblin quote of "a lead and linseed oil ground will take half dozen months to dry" …. that is so blatently preposterous information technology is staggering. Lead is the most siccative (quickest to dry) of all painting pigments.
This wasn't invented by Gamblin, they are reporting what is the traditional recommendation or stipulation for grounds made of oil based lead.
Here y'all will find the same quote on Michael Harding's site:traditional advice recommended leaving Lead White primings to dry for at least 6 months in practiced lite before painting on them.
give thanks you for your post. you seem very knowledgable about grounds.
i idea i would ask you lot or anyone who may know, a couple of questions.
for years i have painted "hard border" abstractions in oil on acrylic grounds. i have struggled for years with a couple different problems. maybe you can help me problem-solve these.
i paint on canvas stretched over wood panel.
1. i apply layerer later layer of lquitex gesso. i sand the layers using 120 or 150 dust. sanding is very difficult because the paper becomes clogged very quickly with acrylic primer. also, little assurance of primer form and dig into the surface creating huge scratches that have a lot of additional effort to set. what am i doing wrong? can i use something like gamblin'south oil ground on top of the smooth acyrilic ground as the final layer and then that I can more than easily create a perfectly smooth surface?
my work is so simple, there are then few elements in information technology that every unmarried thing shows. so if there are scratches from the sanding information technology is very distracting and it ruins the work.
ii. i usually go out parts of the acrylic basis uncovered in the final piece of work. some parts of the surface are covered with hard border lines of black painted with tripple zero round brushes. some parts of the surface are left bare, matte white acrylic ground. sometimes the oil painting lines bleed oil "halos" into the acrylic matte white expanse making the matte white shiny. then it is very noticeable and it amercement the concluding product. perfection is needed in what i practise. and it sucks to put the amount of endeavor i put into my piece of work and non achieve absolute perfection.
3. when i make a mistake in the painting of my hard edge sparse lines and i have to remove oil paint course the acrylic basis, a mark is left. or if i sand off the paint, then the newly sanded area looks brighter than the other areas of the acrylic ground. whatsoever suggestions or insight hither?
I would [B]greatly appreciate[/B] information that might possibly solve these thanks
If you are looking for a smoother surface then I would definitely recommend Non using canvas. Priming a board of some sort or getting a production similar Ampersand'south Gessobord would get you a smoother surface right off.
A primed surface and a painted surface are often going to have a dissimilar surface sheen. You could endeavour an oil primer rather than acrylic or paint the areas yous get out white, white.
Don
I used to apply a coat or 2 of Lead White paint over my acrylic primer. I would tint it with whatever color I wanted information technology to be for my ground–usually calculation a touch of Raw Umber to eliminate the stark white of the acrylic gesso.
The application of a layer of oil paint–whatever its composition (Lead or Titanium), and whether you cull to call it a "primer", "tinted oil pigment", or "tinted ground" provided for me two basic advantages: it sized the porosity of the acrylic primer, allowing all the "absorbing" to be accomplished with this flat application of oil paint, and creating a actually excellent, and friendly surface of dried oil paint upon which to employ subsequent layers of "image paint".
Now, I have never really cared much whether that layer of tinted, Lead White paint that I routinely apply is called an "oil primer", an "imprimatura", or merely a coating of tinted, white, oil paint. It works for me, and information technology is something that I apply for nearly all my serious painting work.
White Lead paint has become then expensive that I save my White Atomic number 82 (I use Williamsburg Flake White) for use in my glazing of the upper layers. Still, even Titanium White works well for the "oil primer" that I brush onto my acrylic-primed surface. And, for me, it creates a surface that is as as useful, and user-friendly as a truthful, expect-6-months-for-information technology-to-"cure", White Atomic number 82, oil primer. I begin applying "image pigment" when it is touch on-dry out, and I simply don't remember of information technology every bit an "oil primer", but just a coat of "oil paint". When I apply a glaze of oil paint, all I need to do is to expect for it to get touch-dry, before applying the next glaze of oil paint. So….that's the length of time I wait for this application of paint to dry.
Works for me.:D
wfmartin. My Blog "Artistic Realism"...
https://williamfmartin.blogspot.comWhite Alkyd enamel have two advantages over oil paint. It dries faster and it makes much less "shrinkable" layer, which is more safe than highly shrinkable lead white. Thus, Alkyd paint is much cheaper, safer and less toxic.
I have posted this on WC before, only I recall this article give a very good reason to paint on a lead ground.
http://si-pddr.si.edu/bitstream/handle/10088/20490/12.Mecklenburg.SCMC3.Mecklenburg.Web.pdf;jsessionid=9BBCFE200C5FF0F4639F07C7A9DD94C5?sequence=1
For anyone not wishing to read the article, in summary it says that ions from the lead volition migrate through to the other pigments and strengthen them.
This article is also says that earth colours, organic dyes, and blacks, fail to produce durable films. (This can be mitigated to some degree by the atomic number 82 ions.)
Likewise, zinc is said to cause brittleness and possible de-lamination. (I don't know if the atomic number 82 mitigates this or not.)Since reading that article, I exercise pretty much the aforementioned as Beak described higher up. three layers of (good) acrylic gesso, then a thin coat of lead primer, tinted if wanted.
Ron
www.RonaldFrancis.comYep, thanks to Sid, he dig an interesting scientific papers!
I also find this paper "Alkyd pigment and paint driers"
https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bitstream/handle/1887/2309/01.pdf?sequence=2Information technology might exist interesting, Ron.
I have posted this on WC before, only I call back this article give a very good reason to paint on a lead basis.
Ron, I'm having a problem accessing that file online for whatever reason. Would y'all exist willing to attach the PDF to a post here if yous have information technology locally?
This commodity is besides says that earth colours … fail to produce durable films. (This can exist mitigated to some caste by the lead ions.)
I promise that mitigation function is true, because earth colors and atomic number 82 white must be at least 95% of what I use!
thanks. i take decided to create a footing that is equanimous of:
rabbit skin glue, titanium white, chalk.this surface will exist constructed on linen stretched over woods panel.
here in greece, this footing is used by icon painters who pigment with oils (as an culling to egg tempera).
i've seen this surface made immaculately smooth. people first sanding this material with 150 dust and work all the way up to 1000 grit.
it's white and matte and i'm expecting it to be the answer i was looking for. oh, and it is non brittle at all. i saw canvas with a smooth ground that was rolled upwardly. then information technology is flexible.
i loathe acrylic gesso and i hope to never have to apply it again in my life. struggled with that crap for five years. never achieved perfect smoothness with information technology. it is incommunicable to sand. adios acrylic!
thanks. i accept decided to create a basis that is composed of:
rabbit skin mucilage, titanium white, chalk.[/quote][Colour="Teal]Gamblin makes a "Traditional Ground" which is comprised of like materials.
They recommend information technology for panels, but, since (according to Gamblin) it [I]is [/I]breakable. [/COLOR]
[quote]–this surface volition be constructed on linen stretched over forest panel.
here in hellenic republic, this ground is used by icon painters who paint with oils (equally an culling to egg tempera).
i've seen this surface made immaculately polish. people kickoff sanding this material with 150 dust and work all the mode upwards to 1000 grit.
[B]information technology's white and matte and i'm expecting it to be the answer i was looking for. oh, and information technology is non brittle at all.[/B] i saw canvas with a smooth ground that was rolled upwardly. and then information technology is flexible.
i loathe acrylic gesso and i promise to never accept to use it again in my life. struggled with that crap for five years. never accomplished perfect smoothness with it. it is impossible to sand. adios acrylic!
Forcing the waveform to collapse for two decades...
http://www.syntheticskystudios.com
Hilliard Gallery, Kansas City, "Small Works", December 2022I can ready an ideal, smooth, silky surface using acrylic primer merely. Water and piece of pumice is what I need. Five layers of trusted acrylic can make whatever chalky glue to exist stone anile, outdated parody of concrete. Glue makes a very breakable, wet and mold sensitive gesso. Not useful on sheet. In 21-st century, acrylic makes perfect, flexible primer for canvases.
Viewing xv posts - 46 through 60 (of 83 total)
- The topic 'White Lead Footing' is closed to new replies.
How Do I Repair Cracking In A Lead White Oil Ground Primed Canvas,
Source: https://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/topic/white-lead-ground/page/4/
Posted by: mckinneysormse.blogspot.com
0 Response to "How Do I Repair Cracking In A Lead White Oil Ground Primed Canvas"
Post a Comment